Continued in the comments...

There's an interesting follow on debate in the comments of Reza's last post "The Trouble with Scientific Data".

Enjoy!

Annotated Script with Sources

The Story of Stuff website provides references and sources for their statements in the form of an annotated script for the video. The script can be found on their references page.

1) On the "100,000 chemicals and synergistic impacts" statement: I tracked the source of that statement (using the source noted in the annotated script to this page.) This appears to be a web site focused on pointing out what we don't know about the chemicals in circulation in the US. It's not as well sourced as I'd like especially on the specific statement about the number of synergistic impact studies that have been conducted. The lack of a secondary source doesn't necessarily make it wrong, but I'm definitely interested in seeing the studies you mentioned that suggest we do understand the synergistic impacts.

2) The sources on BFRs are on page 5 of the script. The sites they point to point to other studies. I read a bunch of them and my take away is that BRFs are leaching into the environment (wildlife) and people's bodies. The amounts are small (in people) but have increased about an order of magnitude in the last 30 years. Plenty of alternatives exist.

The thing I struggle with is the idea that flame retardants are going to save my life. If I'm still asleep in my bed while my bedroom is on fire I'm going to be much more concerned with smoke inhalation than getting burned by my bed.

3) A few of the BFR sources describe the breast milk studies. Unless the sources are just wrong the statement she's making is correct. They make a point to state that Breast milk is still the best choice and they even site sources to that point. (See page 5.)


4) Factory Workers: The point made in the video is that this is a global system. One of the challenges for US factory workers is they cost more and have more restrictions as a result of the safety standards required in the US. I think the safety standards are a great idea, but they are not a global standard occurrence. So while I agree that this does not appear to be a major issue in the States, countries like China count and if they are anything like the US during our industrial revolution then factory workers are getting the short end of the stick.


I'm out of time for this post so I'll follow up on your other points in a few days.

Why Not Just Call?

Paul and Reza discuss why Paul wrote a novel instead of picking up the phone. This back and forth is taken from the original blog post comments.

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Monday, January 21, 2008 8:04:00 AM: Reza said...

What!?!?!
I can't believe you have time to write that response but you don't have time to discuss it over the phone! Boo.

We are talking about two different things here:
1) accuracy (or lack thereof) and
2) effective communication and persuasiveness.

Let's talk offline. Setup a time.
R



Monday, January 21, 2008 10:51:00 AM: Paul said...

It was the night of the second greatest game in Giant's History!!! I realize that I don't care but I figured you'd be watching!!!

So yes, yes I'll call...

My starting position for our future conversation is that they are not completely separate topics. Accuracy, simplicity and effective presentation are inexorably linked.

Talk to you soon my brother!


Some Friends Voice a Preference

The next day a bunch of our friends got on our case about taking the debate offline. We agreed to keep posting, thus this blog was born.

Frankly I (Paul) was glad to keep it on-line. I've debated Reza live, and it's not a fair match. I've lost a debate with him where he agreed with me but took the other side just for fun.

Paul Responds with his Perspective

This was Paul's response to Reza which was posted in the original blog comments Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:10:00 PM.

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I'm not sure if the world is getting more complex, or I'm just paying more attention. Either way I agree that it appears more complex. For many people complexity acts as non-starter, a barrier-to-entry for critical thought, involvement and activism.

Clearly I'm not talking about you, but rather people that take a more dispassionate approach to our environment and their impact on it. I'd argue that this dispassionate group is a large majority of our population. Moreover, If we are ever going to get to a sustainable way of life, I'd argue that this population needs a catalyst to get them to start thinking about how their behavior impacts the rest of the world.

One of the things that impressed me most about The Story of Stuff was how they boiled down complex issues into relatively simple terms. I frequently see people present highly detailed and technically flawless information and have their message and goal go down in flames as a result of presenting at the wrong level of abstraction for their audience.

A challenge I often have is to boil down a complicated topic into something my audience will 1) listen to 2) relate to and 3) be willing to act on. Keeping in mind that the average (attentive) audience will only remember ~20% of anything presented, it is critical that I stay high enough up in scope that I don't bore or lose them. That often means sacrificing some of the detail and possible technical purity of the topic at hand.

With that in mind, when I consider The Story of Stuff as a catalyst for activating the public I'm impressed with it on several counts:

1. It manages to keep people's attention for ~20 minutes while sharing information unrelated to American Idol.
2. It boils down important and complicated topics in ways that are easily consumable by the majority of the population.
3. It does not provide a detailed solution, call out a specific boycott-able culprit or dictate a specific action , but rather encourages people to learn more and provides some resources to get them started. (This one is absolutely critical.)
4. It encourages discussion, debate and likely learning, even among people that know the specifics of some or all of the topics presented.
   

Its surprisingly difficult to craft a simple message about a complex topic with absolute regard to the purity of the subject matter. Being able to do so is what separates people like Einstein and Richard Feynman from the pack.

So when I look at The Story of Stuff, I judge it by how well it achieves its goal of engaging, educating and inspiring people. And rather than exploiting necessary simplifications and calling for specific actions, The Story of Stuff compensates for simplifications by encouraging its audience to learn more.

It takes a profound courage put an idea out to the public, dare people to ignore that idea, and then tell people they need to go learn if they want an answer to the challenge that idea raises. And even if the creators of this video are called out on the specifics and checkmated in a public battle of details and specifics they will have achieved their goal. They will have made people think.

The Story of Stuff - A Must See

This is a copy of Paul's original review of the Story of Stuff. It was posted 2008-01-19.

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George Carlin has a funny perspective on stuff but he doesn't talk about where it all comes from and where it all goes.

As I've been looking at my ecological footprint I started to get the idea that stuff (material goods) has a non-trivial impact on my environment. I was thinking about looking into it, but I wasn't sure where to start.

Then I saw the 20 minute video "The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard" last December and was blown away. It is simply spectacular. The video is a fast paced look at our materials economy from start to finish.

Now I realize that the words materials economy sound gouge-your-eyes-out-with-a-melon-baller boring, but this video is just the opposite. No melon baller needed. Not even a soup spoon. "Brilliant, awesome, and funny" are responses people have to the video and if you don't believe me check out what the critics said.

I was so impressed with the content, the way they simplified a complex topic into a clear message, and how they made it entertaining at the same time, that I'm giving this video my highest rating of five exploding balls of hydrogen.


Video Links
The Story of Stuff video is available in large format at http://www.storyofstuff.com and in a slightly more blurry version here on YouTube.

If you happen on by my house, I ripped it to my iPod, so we can watch it on our wide-screen TV. After you see the video you'll really appreciate the irony of that one. So check it out, it's a must see.

The Division Bell

Two weeks ago I posted a very positive review of the Story of Stuff video. On seeing my post my friend Reza checked out the video and had a very different opinion of the video.

Reza and I usually agree on stuff like this, so our differing opinions on the Story of Stuff was a bit of a surprise. We started debating via comments on the original blog post which is a bit tedious. I tend towards uncontrollable verbosity and the comment window only fits a few sentences...

Just as we were about to take our debate off-line, some of our friends noticed the debate and actually asked us to keep it online. Tired of the comment system we agreed to move the debate to a joint blog.

So this is it. I'm going to copy the existing comments from my blog to this blog and we'll continue the debate here.